Everton and Liverpool discussion

[anto1208]

I'll tell you what Anto, if Everton finish 4th again this year (or higher) I'll give you £100 and that's straight up. Hand on heart I think Everton will finish around the 7th to 10th mark.

its in writting now and thats a £ sign i see not a euro one so i want it in sterling mmmmmm how will i spend my money

seriously a top 6 finish id be very very happy with , but looking at us so far 4 though games
utd : very unlucky hit the bar and a stupid pass back gifted it to them .
villa real : two goals either side of half time killed the game for us
bolton : the thoughest place to go in the prem and we took all 3 points not many will do that
villa again : we should have won it fair and square but for a silly ref , but showed we can cut it against a top europeen side .

roll on fulham , pompy and west ham and wigan & we get our points rolling in early again .( i wont mention arsenal they tear us apart again they allways do )

[ciaran76]

It was tough on Everton alright but do you think Moyes has taken the team as far as he can?,maybe Martin O'Neill could have a job there next Summer with Moyes moving up to Celtic.

Don't mention the C word !!!

[drinkfeckarse]

its in writting now and thats a £ sign i see not a euro one so i want it in sterling mmmmmm how will i spend my money

Don't worry I always pay my bets. It was a great result for them at Bolton because like you said, not a lot of teams will win there. If they get a bit of momentum going early doors again I'll probably start to get a bit nervous but I'm quietly confident that 4th would be too tall an order for them again.

[anto1208]

Don't worry I always pay my bets. It was a great result for them at Bolton because like you said, not a lot of teams will win there. If they get a bit of momentum going early doors again I'll probably start to get a bit nervous but I'm quietly confident that 4th would be too tall an order for them again.

but again this year there isnt any clear favourite , newcastle !! not a hope even if they get owen , spurs maybe depends how they gel , liverpool look like they will stutter and stall again this year nil nil with boro a mid table team and barely beat 10 man sunderland they will be there or there about unless they get owen , if he comes back they could push on for 3rd

[anto1208]

take note liverpool fans this is how to behave on your travels

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/index.php?page_id=7354

now there is no need to have a petition to get any everton fans out of jail for attempted murder

[jockser]

take note liverpool fans this is how to behave on your travels

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/index.php?page_id=7354

now there is no need to have a petition to get any everton fans out of jail for attempted murder

are you refering to Michael shields who is in prison in Bulgaria for a crime committed by Shanks who admitted to the crime and is an everton fan?

[CollegeTillIDie]

Blast from the past... September 1984

Everton fans travelled in numbers to Dublin for the game with UCD. After the 0-0 draw in the first Leg. They were well behaved in Dublin in general and both inside and outside Tolka Park.In fact they were no trouble at all in Ireland. On the ferry back to Liverpool they started a fight amongst themselves. Several were arrested and handed over to Merseyside Police when the ferry docked.

[4tothefloor]

seriously a top 6 finish id be very very happy with , but looking at us so far 4 though games
utd : very unlucky hit the bar and a stupid pass back gifted it to them .
villa real : two goals either side of half time killed the game for us
bolton : the thoughest place to go in the prem and we took all 3 points not many will do that
villa again : we should have won it fair and square but for a silly ref , but showed we can cut it against a top europeen side .

Ifs, buts, maybe's......I remember you having a go at us Liverpool fans for this at the beginning of this thread last season. Oh how the mighty have fallen You'll be doing a lot of it this season I'd say.

[Dotsy]

take note liverpool fans this is how to behave on your travels

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/index.php?page_id=7354

now there is no need to have a petition to get any everton fans out of jail for attempted murder

Well done Everton . One european away trip and their fans behave well. I don't remember any serious trouble at any of Liverpool's seven away games in last year's competition or this years three away games. The incident with the fan you refer to happenend in Bulgaria not Istanbul and as Jockser pointed out another non Liverpool fan has admitted to it.

[anto1208]

Well done Everton . One european away trip and their fans behave well. I don't remember any serious trouble at any of Liverpool's seven away games in last year's competition or this years three away games. The incident with the fan you refer to happenend in Bulgaria not Istanbul and as Jockser pointed out another non Liverpool fan has admitted to it.

he was in bulgaria on his way back from the final , loads of eye wittnesses and even the bar man identified him , but wait his evidence to proove his innocence is that he was asleep at 10 pm on his hols !! you are having a laugh . and that his mate who can now not be prosecuted in any way for this crime has suddenly admitted it mmmmmmmmmmm all sounds a bit fishy to me ,
bet ye think those guys in columbia were nt up to no good either !!

[Dotsy]

I know he was in Bulgaria after been in Istanbul, so what. It was an isolated incident (assuming he did it). If an Everton fan who was in Spain gets into bother while say stopping off in London for a day or two would you class that as Everton fans causing trouble at the away match. I wouldn't, so the incident in Bulgaria is irrelvant in the contact of this discussion.

[anto1208]

I know he was in Bulgaria after been in Istanbul, so what. It was an isolated incident (assuming he did it). If an Everton fan who was in Spain gets into bother while say stopping off in London for a day or two would you class that as Everton fans causing trouble at the away match. I wouldn't, so the incident in Bulgaria is irrelvant in the contact of this discussion.

yes , if they get in trouble travelling to the game at the game or travelling home form the game then yes.

i would say no if it was just him in a fight these things happen but it wasnt , it was a group of liverpool fans travelling back from the game that started trouble , either he or his mate threw a paving slab at a bar man that has been left dissabled with a wife and young daughter , i dont see any pettition to help this guy out since he cant work ever again thanks to these liverpool fans causeing trouble .

but this is getting off point so im stopping now before the dictators that run this place shut the thread

[jockser]

yes , if they get in trouble travelling to the game at the game or travelling home form the game then yes.

i would say no if it was just him in a fight these things happen but it wasnt , it was a group of liverpool fans travelling back from the game that started trouble , either he or his mate threw a paving slab at a bar man that has been left dissabled with a wife and young daughter , i dont see any pettition to help this guy out since he cant work ever again thanks to these liverpool fans causeing trouble .

but this is getting off point so im stopping now before the dictators that run this place shut the thread

You are so wrong about everything here! Michael Shield has a 15 year Jail sentence. Sankey admitted to the crime but the court refused to take that on board. Sankey is NOT a liverpool fan(actually he is an everton fan but thats irrelevent). Lets stop talking about this sensitive subject especially since no body here has a clue what exactly happened.
You can read Sankey confession here http://www.freemichaelshields.org/ and click on "The Case"

[sligoman]

http://www.freemichaelshields.org/

That website is weird. You cant read half the stuff cos there's more writing over it .

[Dotsy]

yes , if they get in trouble travelling to the game at the game or travelling home form the game then yes.

i would say no if it was just him in a fight these things happen but it wasnt , it was a group of liverpool fans travelling back from the game that started trouble , either he or his mate threw a paving slab at a bar man that has been left dissabled with a wife and young daughter , i dont see any pettition to help this guy out since he cant work ever again thanks to these liverpool fans causeing trouble .

but this is getting off point so im stopping now before the dictators that run this place shut the thread

We can agree to disagree

[anto1208]

We can agree to disagree

im not agreeing to that

[4tothefloor]

You are so wrong about everything here! Michael Shield has a 15 year Jail sentence. Sankey admitted to the crime but the court refused to take that on board. Sankey is NOT a liverpool fan(actually he is an everton fan but thats irrelevent). Lets stop talking about this sensitive subject especially since no body here has a clue what exactly happened.
You can read Sankey confession here http://www.freemichaelshields.org/ and click on "The Case"

You should go into the Liverpoolfc.tv boards and read the long thread about Michael Shields. It offers a very good case for why he DID do it. I'm not saying he did it, but there is more to this than meets the eye. I think anyone here posting about this case should read and learn the facts first instead of typing ill informed views based on the English media and an emotional campaign to free him. And obviously if you go to a Michael Shields site, you are going to get a biased view. It's a very interesting case...

[sligoman]

You should go into the Liverpoolfc.tv boards and read the long thread about Michael Shields.

Got a link?

[4tothefloor]

Got a link?

I can't find the thread that details the facts of the case. Most likely deleted (happens a lot on LFC forums, over moderated). Only one I can find is this one. It gives a fair idea anyway of why Shields is probably guilty and how the image of him being portrayed as an 'innocent gentle giant' etc is a load of BS really. You'll find that a lot of Liverpool fans, and Scousers especially, are supporting him blindly when in fact he is 99% the person that did it. His case for defense is non-existant and is made up of half-truths, inconsistencies and lies. The other thread I read a few weeks ago is far better but I can't find the bloody thing.

I believe he did it and that they have the right man. The British media have realised it too because they have cooled off completely from highlighting his case....

EDIT: Thread has been deleted from Liverpool forums, but will try to get an archived link tomorrow from one of the admins. Found the Original article that was the topic of that thread though. Source is here. It's a Daily Telegraph article. I'll post the article below, might have to break it into two posts as it is quite long.

[4tothefloor]

This is the article:

Innocent, gentle giant? Or remorseless thug guilty of attempted murder?
By Daniel Foggo
(Filed: 07/08/2005)

There are posters all across Liverpool plastered on community centres, shops and pubs, peeking out from sitting-room windows up and down the grimy terraced streets. "Innocent", shouts the bold lettering above a photograph of puppy-faced Michael Shields. "This young man is being accused of a crime he did not commit," insist the posters, published by his family. "Please come forward and help."


Michael Shields in his prison cell in Bulagaria. He claims he was asleep in his hotel at the time of the attack

Since this emotive appeal was printed more than a month ago, Shields, an 18-year-old engineering student from Liverpool's Edge Hill area, has been convicted by a court in Bulgaria of attempting to murder a local fish-and-chip shop worker. Shields, an ardent Liverpool FC fan who was staying in Bulgaria with friends after watching his team win the European Cup in Istanbul, is said to have smashed a paving slab into the head of Martin Georgiev during a drunken fracas at the Black Sea resort of Golden Sands. Mr Georgiev, who suffered significant brain damage after his skull was broken open during the attack, is now unable to work. The court sentenced Shields to 15 years in prison.

In answer to the posters, someone did indeed come forward to help, but to no avail. It was announced during the trial that Graham Sankey, a fellow Liverpool FC fan and apparently a stranger to Shields, had confessed in writing to being the real culprit behind the attack. However, after examining the confession, made on condition that Mr Sankey would not have to stand trial himself, prosecutors decided that he was responsible for assaulting someone else. The refusal of the Bulgarian authorities to take heed of Mr Sankey's admission has sent Liverpudlians into anger overdrive and in the process brought Shields's plight to national attention. His family has begun a yellow ribbon campaign and called on the Government to intervene to save their son.


Supporter: Liverpool footballer Jamie Carragher dedicated his first goal in six years to Michael Shields

Their cause has won many supporters. Liverpool footballers have pledged to back Shields - one player, Jamie Carragher, even dedicated his first goal of the season to the teenager - while local businesses have undertaken to boycott Bulgarian goods.

The blanket criticism of Bulgaria's judicial system has infuriated authorities in the Eastern European state and the gathering storm around the case is now threatening to turn it into an international incident. But has Shields indeed been the victim of a miscarriage of justice, or is he a guilty man?

One aspect of the case is not in dispute, and that is what happened to Mr Georgiev, a 25-year-old father of two young children, who on the night of Sunday, May 29, was at work in the Big Ben fish-and-chip shop at the resort. By the early hours of the next morning, the area was bustling with revellers, many of them drunken Liverpool supporters who had returned from their team's historic victory in Istanbul. Among them was Anthony Wilson, 18, who entered the restaurant at about 5am, visibly drunk, and ordered a hot dog and beer.

After first refusing to pay, he sat down and began exchanging insults with two English couples sitting nearby. Wilson's friend, Bradley Thompson, 19, grabbed his drunken compatriot and pulled him away, throwing a few choice epithets over his shoulder for good measure. One of the English men chased after them, but when Wilson and Thompson responded by pelting him with bottles he then returned to arm himself with a couple of improvised missiles from the drinks cabinet in the fish-and-chip shop.

Mr Georgiev went outside to try to calm the situation. He told the court that the last thing he remembers seeing was a fair-haired man wearing a white shirt, whom he later identified as Shields, run up and punch him in the face. Wilson, Thompson and, apparently, Shields, then set about teaching Mr Georgiev a lesson in what English teenagers abroad are wont to do when drunk: adminstering vicious beatings.

Three Bulgarian witnesses told the court that they saw Shields pick up an 8lb paving slab and bring it down on Mr Georgiev's head, while Wilson and Thompson laid into him with hefty kicks. Daniela Krumova, a waitress working at Big Ben's, identified Shields as the person who hit Mr Georgiev with the slab. "He was like mad," she said, "out of control."

According to Ms Krumova, Shields held the slab with both hands above his head and threw it at Mr Georgiev's head with all his might. The strength of the impact was such that the stone bounced off the victim's head.

Danail Yordanov, also working at Big Ben's, recognised Shields as the person who hit Mr Georgiev with the slab. However, he said that he had not seen Shields's face from the front but only in profile.

Vassil Todorov, who was in Big Ben's at the time of the incident, told the court that he saw Shields taking part in the fight. "He was standing over Martin Georgiev and had foam coming out of his mouth," he said.

After the attack, the police were called and told by Mr Todorov that an Englishman at the scene had said the assailants were staying at the Kristal hotel. The next morning a number of English fans, including those staying at the hotel, were rounded up by the police. Shields was among them, as were his friends Kieron Dunne, 20, and John Unsworth, 21. All three had been sharing room 419. Room 421 next door had been occupied by Wilson and Thompson, who were friends of Mr Sankey, until both had been evicted by the hotel management earlier for disturbing other guests. The two groups had become friendly and had spent previous mornings on their neighbouring balconies comparing notes from the night's revelries.

This morning was different, however. Their passports seized by the police, Mr Dunne, Mr Unsworth and Shields were asked to don white shirts and take part in an identity parade. None had been wearing a white shirt the night before, although Shields's was cream-coloured.

Another man who was detained, although only briefly, was Mr Sankey, a 20-year-old electrician. Since he had dark hair and did not fit the description given to the police he was allowed to go free.

Shields was not so lucky. He was repeatedly picked out by witnesses in identity parades, taken off for further questioning and later charged with the attack on Mr Georgiev. His friends, meanwhile, caught their flight back to Britain in the expectation, they said later, that Shields would be released and follow on a later plane.

Within days, Shields's parents, Maria and Michael, were protesting their son's innocence to the media and making much noise about the "intolerable" conditions in which he was being detained. They insisted the teenager was a "gentle giant" who would never hurt anyone; there must have been some kind of mistake.

The Shields family mobilised their son's friends to return to Bulgaria and give evidence. Central to Shields's defence was his claim, backed up by Mr Dunne, Mr Unsworth and others, that he had been tucked up in bed by 3am on the morning of May 30 and therefore could not have carried out the attack, which was said to have happened about two hours later.

By early July, friends of the Shields family were also already pointing fingers at Mr Sankey as the "real culprit" - a charge that he emphatically denied. The trial was set for July 21, with Wilson also due to face charges of hooliganism and possession of cannabis.

continued............