Games weekend 3rd to 7th May 2024

[Straightstory]

So, if you call someone a 'c**t' it's just a bit of banter. But an 'Irish c**t' deserves a ten match suspension. If this happened in England where an Irish player was abused, it would be a totally different situation. The player would feel isolated and singled out. But this happened in Ireland, for goodness sake - where basically almost all the players and all the spectators are Irish. The grovelling response from Dundalk is pathetic - but also hilarious:
[FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]"Going forward, Dundalk FC will work with George to develop his understanding of these issues."[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]I'd love to be a fly on the wall as [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]George[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000] undergoes his 're-education'. How [SIZE=4]did the world that George Orwell predicted actually come to pass? We live in crazy times.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Olé Olé]

I think what doesn't sit right with me is that Shelvey is getting a bigger punishment/attention for this incident than the others. It appears as if racism against non-Irish individuals is merely met with performative consequences, such as rhetorical statements, while actual punishment is reserved for those who make (more minor to me) missteps when interacting with an Irish person - like a weird power play.

For the record, Shelvey should be getting a suspension. You simply can not go up to the ref and calling him a c**t. No matter what, you should face sanctions for that.

But reading through a lot of the comments, it reads far that this is getting back at an English lad more than anything. If the comments came from a player of another nationality, would there be this furore? The whole thing has a weird nationalist bent on it for me.

10 games is nearly a 1/3 of a season, and for a player that is trying to rebuild his career here, that is a hell of a sanction. (Not that he is a loss to Dundalk either though)

Do you really think that someone from another country would instinctively string the words "Irish" and "c***" together? This is about him being English in more than one way. He's getting nailed because he is English. But he also said it because he is English.

In the same way, the abuse James McClean receives in England is largely ignored. Because he is Irish. And he gets that specific type of abuse. Because he is Irish.

Not sure whether Harvey has posted picture in a balaclava recently or whether he has any strong views on the British Monarchy...

[bluemovie]

So, if you call someone a 'c**t' it's just a bit of banter. But an 'Irish c**t' deserves a ten match suspension. If this happened in England where an Irish player was abused, it would be a totally different situation. The player would feel isolated and singled out. But this happened in Ireland, for goodness sake - where basically almost all the players and all the spectators are Irish. The grovelling response from Dundalk is pathetic - but also hilarious:
[FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]"Going forward, Dundalk FC will work with George to develop his understanding of these issues."[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]I'd love to be a fly on the wall as [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]George[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=ibm plex sans, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000] undergoes his 're-education'. How [SIZE=4]did the world that George Orwell predicted actually come to pass? We live in crazy times.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

I wouldn't be using Orwell to play down racism. He was fervently against racism and fascism. Re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four maybe because the dystopian future he wrote about is actually against dehumanising language, not supporting it.

[Calcio Jack]

Calm down will you for Gods sake.
There isnt a week goes by on this forum or others where Harvey isnt called some insult or other including earlier in this thread and he is Irish,
I think a ten game ban is a massive over reaction, fine if the ref was black and he called him the n word or something but 10 for an insulting jibe between two lads from ireland and England is OTT.
It is however typical of the way the world has gone.
Nestas suggestion of a 3 game ban and suspended balance would have been good enough while also making the point he was an eejit.

Firstly we get the typical mansplaining of “.. calm down for gods sake…” to attempt to deflect and create a false narrative ; so spare us that in future.

Whether one agrees with severity etc of the ban ( for what it’s worth personally I also agree it is too harsh) isn’t the point of my comment….

I’m simply saying that to agree what Shelvey said is factual and therefore legitimate means you therefore appear to be endorsing his behaviour and imo to think that way and post that view deserves to be sanctioned…. What Shelvey said was incorrect and disgusting and he deserved to be punished and anyone supporting it ( despite Shelvey himself apologising) needs to imo consider reappraising their view.

[Nesta99]

The McClean abuse is more to do with the poppy brigae and the pressue for all to wear oe in November. McCleans refusal to do so started the abuse to him and he happens to be Irish. There are plenty of Irish, pundits and players that have no issue with symbolism involved and dont get targeted with anti irish abuse. McClean is entitled to his views and shoildnt be targeted for them. It not ignored because he is Irish per se but because the situation was widespread and could be resolved by McClean himself eg he was offered a green popy shirt which was for remembering Irish servicemen of the 1st and 2nd World Wars as a compromise, as marginal the differences is.

It doesnt make much difference in a whataboutery way, its wrong, but over the years I have heard far more anglophobic abuse of players than any other group in LoI and seemed to be accepted when colour wast the root of the abuse. Brit bashing Derry City fans wouldnt be uncommon as a wind up on the terraces.

As long as things are consistant now that this precenent is set so be it now.

[Nesta99]

I don’t recall any Pats player being in trouble for racist comments in the last 15-20 years anyways so not sure who you’re talking about. I do recall Jason McGuinness being at Bohs and racially abusing Sligo's Romould Boco. Then Sligo later signed McGuinness only after checking with Boco if he was ok with the signing.

Other incidents involving Pats players was, 2 black players being racially abused by CSKA Sofia fans in Tallaght in 2022 and the second half of a game in the Showgrounds being delayed by the ref after David Odumosu was racially abused by a Sligo fan from behind the goals when going out for the second half, again in 2022

Yup this is what I was thinking of, apologies for the error.
I also recall quite a lot of abuse directed and Zayed after he declared for Libya during his time at Derry. In fear of sounding like im in some way condoning things a lot of the abuse was when he was with Rovers and Bohs fans the culprits - it would have had less to do with racism and more to do with that he was a Rovers player - if he had been a bit tubby, lanky, redhead, bald etc the abuse would have taken some form.

for the record, I think the worst abuse I witnessed and maybe it was because it was a first for me, not being old enough to go to away games then, was of Curtis Flemming in Oriel when he was at St Pats. I recall one particular individual, now deceased, practically running the line beside Flemming. When watching an Ireland game on TV in Oriel Park years later, the same guy was retelling and bragging about the abuse he gave Flemming and whenever Flemming touched the ball yer man was up shouting 'C'mon Curtis' and talking up his LoI roots....

Racism is rasicism, bigoty bigotry, im not sure there should be degress or levels - it happened or it didnt, non of this lower end of the scale you hear when bans are issued, mainly EFL standard type statements. But tbh I dont think many of culprits actually realise what they are at, its a bit of craic, in the moment, would shake the players hand after the game etc etc. Lack of insight isnt an excuse and education is needed but a lot of these morons would atually see what they were doing if it was pointed out. Its not like in areas of Spain where it is deeply rooted and done with intention. Anyway I digress....Shelvey deserves his ban as much for being an idiot as for his comment albeit Harvey was just short of telling Shelvey to go back to Engalnd if he didnt rate it here, it was certainly inferred imo and it elicited the response in question.