The Kevin Nolan saga

**Beavis** · 20/02/2004, 5:57 PM

Sylvo apologies for my last post.It seems the easiest thing to do is critisise the EngPL fans who do despite what people on this site would have you believe,make up the majority of Ireland fans.
But if this is genuinely how you've experience it,then I can hardly argue with that.I just misinterpreted it as another easy shot at EngPL fans,which I now see it wasn't.

On the subject in question,I think it barely warrants debate.Anyone who can't add up why an Ireland fan could have an english accent is so completely ignorant in the ways of our history that they don't deserve to be at the game.

**London Irish** · 20/02/2004, 6:12 PM

Originally posted by Bring Back Mick
Well said .....................Kevin Kilbane is a true Mayo man unlike that gob sh!te Gallen.................................UP THE WEST !!!

2nd Gen and proud to be Irish .....................................

…….Saw KK on holiday in Achill last year and he was top bloke. Spent a good half hour talking when he never had to…could really tell he cared about qualifying for Euro 2004 and what pulling on the Green Shirt meant….what a touch of class to do that at 14……it shouldn't be forgoten that not too long ago it was not always 'popular' or 'cool' to be Irish in Britain.......

….Just back from the match in Dublin and had a great time talking to fans from all over Ireland and Britain……it really is only the odd remark from an idiot that makes this an issue. …..Roll on the Czechs

**sylvo** · 20/02/2004, 8:09 PM

Beavis no need for apologies,, I think i might have misunderstood you about Kevin Kilbane so apologies on my part for that.
I've alway's felt people should be allowed support what ever team they want, I don't follow an English club but that's just me I would never have a go @ anyone for doing so, because i'd have to have a go @ mostly all my mate's and family, even i as a kid had a leaning toward's an english club
Lopez yer right KK is not the only 2nd gen to totally wear his heart on his sleve, Gary Breen was alway's known for being Ireland mad by any one i know who was @ school with him in north london, as with the football match's in the Dolan twin's school playground in essex between west ham and galway united told year's later by the manager of cork city himself. Lopez you were in the vacinity of that table in Brussels when Brendan from Waterford wrote himself into our own bit of folklaw with thanking us for supporting his country, thankfully you weren't sitting @ that table Tommy f was there i remember.
London Irish yer right it is mostly the odd remark from the odd idiot, and indeed wednesday was a great night, can't wait for the Czech's

**lopez** · 20/02/2004, 8:33 PM

Originally posted by sylvo
Lopez you were in the vacinity of that table in Brussels when Brendan from Waterford wrote himself into our own bit of folklaw with thanking us for supporting his country, thankfully you weren't sitting @ that table Tommy f was there i remember.

Was that the night DAXION took me home with the help of the 'STAATWAATCH' after a bad pint of the Bob Marley Aftershave?

**sylvo** · 20/02/2004, 9:01 PM

No that was on the way to amsterdam that happened this was another night you were banjaxed, belguim 97

**Beavis** · 21/02/2004, 1:14 PM

Originally posted by lopez
Don't think Beavis was having a dig as we have smileys to ram the sarcasm home (unless I'm mistaken).

There was no sarcasm intended here at all.But now that I re-read what I said,it may have seemed a bit over the top.
I had never heard about this before.You hear so much talk of so-n-so only playing for us as a last resort that to read this was like a breath of fresh air.
Kev Kilbane for President.

**sylvo** · 21/02/2004, 1:47 PM

All agreed their was no scarasm, just slightly misread on my part.
Beavis yer right Kevin Kilbane is a top man, I was even told by a mate of mine who had just phoned his wife back in waterford while we were in Korea @ the wc that kk had just been on tg4 doing an interview totally in Irish, top man. A credit to second generation Irish people.
Another second generation Irishman who do'es not get much praise on some thread's here is Rory Delap, when he got the phonecall from McCarthy telling him that he never made the squad for the world cup, He just sorted himself out with a flight to Japan packed all his Ireland gear and went over to support the team as a fan just the same as the rest of us, top man.

**Slash/ED** · 21/02/2004, 5:22 PM

Originally posted by sylvo
Another second generation Irishman who do'es not get much praise on some thread's here is Rory Delap, when he got the phonecall from McCarthy telling him that he never made the squad for the world cup, He just sorted himself out with a flight to Japan packed all his Ireland gear and went over to support the team as a fan just the same as the rest of us, top man.

I'd no idea he did that, top bloke.

**Declan_Michael** · 21/02/2004, 6:55 PM

Originally posted by sylvo
Beavis yer right Kevin Kilbane is a top man, I was even told by a mate of mine who had just phoned his wife back in waterford while we were in Korea @ the wc that kk had just been on tg4 doing an interview totally in Irish, top man. A credit to second generation Irish people.

Are you sure Kevin Kilbane can speak fluent Irish? As far as I am aware he was born and raised in England. They certainly don't teach Gaelic in English schools. Unless his parents kept him in at night when he should have been playing football with his mates!

**lopez** · 21/02/2004, 7:41 PM

Originally posted by Declan_Michael
Are you sure Kevin Kilbane can speak fluent Irish? As far as I am aware he was born and raised in England. They certainly don't teach Gaelic in English schools. Unless his parents kept him in at night when he should have been playing football with his mates!

A mate of mine (Milwall fan) speaks fluent Irish as both parents were from Connemara. I was learning myself about twelve years ago and we met this Galway Utd fan from Spiddal in Copenhagen in 92. He was having a right good conversation with him which left me feeling inadequate. I just managed to answer where I was from.

Also my cousin was speaking fluent Spanish until he learnt it properly in additional lessons at college for his O and A levels, even though he was born in London of two Spanish parents. And of course you don't need to go to school to learn a language, especially one that you know the basics (KK's parents are apparently Irish speakers). I learnt Spanish from a linguaphone style book/tapes that my parents brought from me at 15, before studying it at uni. Maybe why I was a crap footballer.

**Declan_Michael** · 21/02/2004, 9:58 PM

Originally posted by lopez
A mate of mine (Milwall fan) speaks fluent Irish as both parents were from Connemara. I was learning myself about twelve years ago and we met this Galway Utd fan from Spiddal in Copenhagen in 92. He was having a right good conversation with him which left me feeling inadequate. I just managed to answer where I was from.

Also my cousin was speaking fluent Spanish until he learnt it properly in additional lessons at college for his O and A levels, even though he was born in London of two Spanish parents. And of course you don't need to go to school to learn a language, especially one that you know the basics (KK's parents are apparently Irish speakers). I learnt Spanish from a linguaphone style book/tapes that my parents brought from me at 15, before studying it at uni. Maybe why I was a crap footballer.

Of course Irish can be learnt if you purchase a few study aids or go to night school. I'm presuming Kilbane didn't and since he wouldn't have used it on a daily basis in England fair play to him if he's fluent.

Spanish is totally different scenario since it's taught in most schools in Britain and is an international language. Don't want to open a can of worms about Irish being perceived as a 'dead' language though

**sylvo** · 22/02/2004, 11:09 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Declan_Michael
[B]Are you sure Kevin Kilbane can speak fluent Irish? As far as I am aware he was born and raised in England. They certainly don't teach Gaelic in English schools. Unless his parents kept him in at night when he should have been playing football with his mates!

I know quite a few people that learnt Irish over here. My perant's and family friend's even tried to teach me word's and sentance's, i'll definitely have to do it properly and go to Irish classes on day, work and football just keep getting in the way.

**Beavis** · 22/02/2004, 12:47 PM

The irish schooling system causes kids to reject irish before they've even considered whether they might actually like to learn it.They can't stand it and grow up seared with the idea of it being a chore.By the time I was old enough to realise I did want to be capable in my native language,it was too late.

I keep telling myself right I'm going to sign up for the irish classes in college but then put it off until the next semester.It's difficult to motivate yourself to learn a language you may never use.

I presume yous'll have to start from scratch.That's tough.My advice would be to aim just to be able to say some basics.If you aim to be able to freely converse,the chances are you'll soon become despondent and will end up dropping it as quickly as you've started.

**lopez** · 22/02/2004, 3:18 PM

Originally posted by Declan_Michael
Of course Irish can be learnt if you purchase a few study aids or go to night school. I'm presuming Kilbane didn't and since he wouldn't have used it on a daily basis in England fair play to him if he's fluent.

Spanish is totally different scenario since it's taught in most schools in Britain and is an international language. Don't want to open a can of worms about Irish being perceived as a 'dead' language though

KK could have been speaking a form of 'pidgin Irish - bit like Gazza or Becks with English.

We were talking about Catalan and Galician on another thread. Both had the literature side of things seriously curtailed during Fat Frank's reign which led to a population in both areas (where the majority spoke some form of the minority language) illiterate in these languages while often having them as their first language.

Originally posted by Beavis
The irish schooling system causes kids to reject irish before they've even considered whether they might actually like to learn it.They can't stand it and grow up seared with the idea of it being a chore.By the time I was old enough to realise I did want to be capable in my native language,it was too late.

I've heard that before from my dad (who can't say good morning in Irish and absolutely hated it at school) and the wife's step dad (fluent Irish speaker) in the Cork Gaeltacht. I suggested that perhaps the biggest mistake was having RTE TV in English, but the wife's step-dad thought that was the wrong step (my argument was based on Hebrew and its renaissance in Is...Zionist occupied Palestine

, where most immigrants only knew a bit when they arrive). The other thing that we wound him up over was of course was that immigrants into Ireland should get better benefit the more fluent they were.

The crux is the opportunity to speak it. If I could speak the language as much as I can Spanish (I know some Columbians at the kids' schools) I would have no trouble learning it.

**London Irish** · 22/02/2004, 6:12 PM

Originally posted by Declan_Michael
Are you sure Kevin Kilbane can speak fluent Irish? As far as I am aware he was born and raised in England. They certainly don't teach Gaelic in English schools. Unless his parents kept him in at night when he should have been playing football with his mates!

……KK’s dad is from Achill Island (like my Mum) and parts of it are gaeltacht areas. Notice he always sings the national anthem in Gaelic and hats of to him if he is fluent. I know bits and pieces and Dad taught me Amhán Na bhFiann when I was young, but I sing (very badly - if anyone was in the East Upper on Weds it was me out of tune and with the cockney accent!!) but more from memory than any real fluency….

……Italian and Polish friends from school are all fluent in their respective parents’ languages (strange how the old 2G debate is lost on them but that is another story). In my experience Irish adults normally spoke Irish when they didn’t want kids to hear or used an old fashioned saying…….hence I guess we can all ask the time, say close the door, shut your mouth etc.. in Gaelic

…shame its not spoken wider …..as i get older i feel really should get round to learning some – you can pick up RNG on digital radio and I always enjoy a good listen to that.. …

BTW Thinks it’s really nice touch that players’ names are in Gaelic in the programme (if you can get one!!!)

**sylvo** · 24/02/2004, 9:07 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by London Irish
[ I know bits and pieces and Dad taught me Amhán Na bhFiann when I was young, but I sing (very badly - if anyone was in the East Upper on Weds it was me out of tune and with the cockney accent!!) but more from memory than any real fluency….

…

Don't worry, i was also in the east stand upper singing the national antham out of tune, you were amongst friend's see yer @ the cezch game.

**Junior** · 25/02/2004, 8:30 AM

Originally posted by London Irish
……KK’s dad is from Achill Island (like my Mum) and parts of it are gaeltacht areas. Notice he always sings the national anthem in Gaelic and hats of to him if he is fluent. I know bits and pieces and Dad taught me Amhán Na bhFiann when I was young, but I sing (very badly - if anyone was in the East Upper on Weds it was me out of tune and with the cockney accent!!) but more from memory than any real fluency….

My mothers from achill Island as well, got a picture with big KK after the Spain game, which my mum insists she wants to send to all the relatives back home!!, she'll not hear a bad word said about him.

I hadn't heard the 14yrs of age story about him before, but fair play at such a young age you nearly always do as the adults say -to know your own mind at that age is more than admirable.

I too would love to be able to speak more gaelic, unfortunately both parents remember very little (apart from close the door, please etc...

), so there was very little I could pick up as a child. Apart from Linguaphone kits, books etc.. anyone know of any websites, perhaps with phonetical assistance??

**Plastic Paddy** · 25/02/2004, 9:12 AM

Originally posted by Junior
I too would love to be able to speak more gaelic, unfortunately both parents remember very little (apart from close the door, please etc... ), so there was very little I could pick up as a child. Apart from Linguaphone kits, books etc.. anyone know of any websites, perhaps with phonetical assistance??

Junior - this may be of some use to you: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/

Bringing it all the way back round to the subject of the thread, Sky Sports were reporting yesterday that Kevin Nolan had not yet made up his mind who to represent at international level. He said that he'd be sitting down with Sam Allardyce to discuss his options. That's him definitely playing for England then...

PP

**Ozymandias** · 25/02/2004, 9:15 AM

not neccessarily...Sam has a soft spot for ireland after his time as player manager at Limerick.....we'll wait and see...not sure if Nolan is better than anything we already have but like everything else it might change in time