Petition to wind up Accolade (Shels)

**Strabane_Harp** · 20/03/2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

Maybe what has happened now will make others sit up and notice that we don’t have loads of money? And in fact we do have a tax bill like other clubs!

would ye's be so good as to pay it once and a while

**sfc red** · 20/03/2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Just on that - there was a meeting between, I think, Reds Independent and Ollie a year or so ago. Before then, RI were very vocally against selling Tolka, and after that, they suddenly were all in favour and wouldn't tell anyone why (I think that's the way it transpired). What was that meeting about, can any Shels fan tell me, or what's the general view about what was said at the time?

We don't know either. You've no chance of finding that out.

**green-blood** · 20/03/2006, 12:58 PM

they cheated others clubs along the way by getting out of their debt and starting a fresh when they built the debt up at other clubs expense

wrong. Rovers never owed another league club a penny. Bohs/Pats/Shels/Morton stadium all of those debts were discharged in full.

**higgins** · 20/03/2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Just on that - there was a meeting between, I think, Reds Independent and Ollie a year or so ago. Before then, RI were very vocally against selling Tolka, and after that, they suddenly were all in favour and wouldn't tell anyone why (I think that's the way it transpired). What was that meeting about, can any Shels fan tell me, or what's the general view about what was said at the time?

Nobody that was in the room at the time have said anything to the best of my knowledge!

Again if you went onto Shelsweb you would have read many threads by posters disgusted over this.
At least now some of you are beginning to deal with facts and I wont have to read another 7 pages of "head in sand" comments!!

**higgins** · 20/03/2006, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by green-blood

wrong. Rovers never owed another league club a penny. Bohs/Pats/Shels/Morton stadium all of those debts were discharged in full.

I hate opening this back up but I know what you did was legal and wish you the best but I was of the opinion at the time that its ok to overspend and build up debts as long as you pay them off eventually.

I just think what you did with examinership should have carried a punishment soemhwere in the FAI rule book but it didnt. If a club wants to overspend to avoid relegation and therefore send another club down I have no problem with it but thats on the basis they carry that debt forward and its with them into the following season.

Its a moral issue I have and probably doesnt need going over again!

I use the comparison as people are stating shels are overspending and therefore its a form of cheating and driving up wages, my answer to them is that its not cheating and its all legal as long as all debts are eventually paid.

**The Sheliban** · 20/03/2006, 1:04 PM

Just a couple of points.

I am no financial expert, and know nothing about business. As far as I can glean, we pay money to the revenue. In much the same way as you don't pay your leccy until the final notice, so Shels have been leaving their repayments as long as possible. This has been fine up to now, but for some reason, the Taxman has decided to jump in ahead of the normal deadline (possible irked at being constantly made wait)
This will all be sorted out at the hearing in April - there were no false submissions made to the League, so no reason for deducting points etc.
As far as having blind faith in Ollie, well, I have faith in him. Without him, there'd probably be no Shels today, never mind being the most consistent team in the past ten years etc. Whereas he may get worked up emotionally about stuff, he has proved to be a great businessman. Doesn't mean my faith is blind, means I'm still concerned, but I'm not wetting myself about these events. Yet.

**Poor Student** · 20/03/2006, 1:12 PM

Is Ollie a liar? Ollie has given two quotes to the Ireland on Sunday. One in August stating he wrote a letter to the Revenue saying he would not be paying anymore. Another (last week) claiming he got the deadline wrong and is embarrassed.

Neither of these fit into alternate explanations about the taxman suddenly changing his mind or a cash flow crisis. So tell me, is he a liar and does any Shels fan care or acklowledge that he wrote to the Revenue to tell them that? And by that I don't mean to comment on Rovers' situation, I mean does any Shels fan wonder whether he carried out this threat and if this has lead to this situation?

**pete** · 20/03/2006, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by The Sheliban

I am no financial expert, and know nothing about business. As far as I can glean, we pay money to the revenue. In much the same way as you don't pay your leccy until the final notice, so Shels have been leaving their repayments as long as possible. This has been fine up to now, but for some reason, the Taxman has decided to jump in ahead of the normal deadline (possible irked at being constantly made wait)

I think thats a very optimistic way to view all this. Its clear Shels were already not paying the taxman which is why a repayment lan was negotiated. To continue your analogy its like having back ESB bills, so agree to a repayment plan, you've not defaulted on that plan so the ESB telling you pay up now or they'll cut you off.

As you suggest i think the taxman has lost patience so will be hard to make deals in good faith in future.

If Accolade was to be closed i think this invalidates the contracts of current players so they become free agents. The Shels FC rights would be taken by the taxman and other creditors who could choose to sell off to new company (Ollie would not be allowed involvement in that). In such a scenario you would lose a lot of goodwill amoung the business community plus probably get points deduction like Rovers. Its not a decision clubs make lightly.

**BohDiddley** · 20/03/2006, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by bohs til i die

2. I would love to see Shels get wound up because I hate Ollie Byrne. This man is an official of your club but time and again he brings disgrace to the game.

I want Shels to survive -- just.
The club is part and parcel of Irish football history, and any group of football devotees that has lasted so far in this GAA/EPL-saturated environment deserves a medal. We could debate at length Shels' and Ollie's services and disservices to football, but I don't think we'd get anywhere. Regardless of who it may be, the fact that a leading, top-flight club is so close to oblivion has to be of concern to anyone who loves Irish football. I'm sure the enemies of Irish football, like those who tried to get their hands on Tallaght, are delighted.
I actually find it hard to say that. As I mentioned before, sympathy doesn't come easy for those who used bogus financial muscle for squad-wrecking spending sprees so they could lord it over the rest. Losing Glen Crowe has cost BFC a lot. Taking him away from Bohs has cost Shels rather more.
Much as I want to them to survive, I certainly do not want them limping into Dalymount. Using Bohs to prop them up is, as the FAI now must have heard loud and clear from Bohs support, not an option.

**The Sheliban** · 20/03/2006, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Is Ollie a liar? Ollie has given two quotes to the Ireland on Sunday. One in August stating he wrote a letter to the Revenue saying he would not be paying anymore. Another (last week) claiming he got the deadline wrong and is embarrassed.

The August one said in a fit of anger? Doesn't necessarily make him a liar.

Neither of these fit into alternate explanations about the taxman suddenly changing his mind or a cash flow crisis. So tell me, is he a liar and does any Shels fan care or acklowledge that he wrote to the Revenue to tell them that? And by that I don't mean to comment on Rovers' situation, I mean does any Shels fan wonder whether he carried out this threat and if this has lead to this situation?

No, obviously you can't default the taxman. I'd say he was just sounding off about the Rovers situation.

**The Sheliban** · 20/03/2006, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I think thats a very optimistic way to view all this. Its clear Shels were already not paying the taxman which is why a repayment lan was negotiated. To continue your analogy its like having back ESB bills, so agree to a repayment plan, you've not defaulted on that plan so the ESB telling you pay up now or they'll cut you off.

As you suggest i think the taxman has lost patience so will be hard to make deals in good faith in future.

If Accolade was to be closed i think this invalidates the contracts of current players so they become free agents. The Shels FC rights would be taken by the taxman and other creditors who could choose to sell off to new company (Ollie would not be allowed involvement in that). In such a scenario you would lose a lot of goodwill amoung the business community plus probably get points deduction like Rovers. Its not a decision clubs make lightly.

I think the real danger is that other creditors will now see the headlines and get jumpy, and this might cause us problems. I imagine Ollie will be on the blower a lot this week!

**monkey magic** · 20/03/2006, 1:50 PM

the thing thats going round my head all weekend is just where is he gonna get the 300,000 needed before april 3rd?? am i right in saying he has to pay it off in full before the court date in order to avoid the hearing??

**Student Mullet** · 20/03/2006, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

I use the comparison as people are stating shels are overspending and therefore its a form of cheating and driving up wages, my answer to them is that its not cheating and its all legal as long as all debts are eventually paid.

I agree with you there Higgins but I would make two exceptions. A club which builds up debts which it has no prospect of ever paying is cheating, like Rovers did but that's not the case for Shels.

The other exception is building up non capital debts and paying for them by selling your ground. I know legally no other club or fan has an interest in Tolka but I do think that selling it to cover wage related debts is cheating the Irish sporting public.

**higgins** · 20/03/2006, 2:22 PM

Ollie did say he would pay the tax man no more money. My take on that was he was trying to force somebody to take notice and maybe he went through with this for a little while but he came around! I'm full sure he was made see the errors of his ways and this is not as a result. People have said shels agreed on a series of repayments in the last few months so this would have been well after his previous comments.

As for comparison with not paying your bills until final notice, that’s par for the course with Ollie from the little bit I know so in all honesty I would think he got caught out with revenue and his embarrassed comment is true.

Shels had the same amount of debt last week as they do now but the difference is they have a wind up order out for them.

My money would be on Ollie paying the debts due to his bluff being called and things go on as normal with a club who are professional on the pitch and amateur off it. Not a scenario I am overly happy with but Shels will be in business after April 3rd.

Also why do people with nothing interesting to say or have anything to add to this debate continue to post?
Can you not just set up an "Ollie Byrne ruined my life" thread and leave this one?

**higgins** · 20/03/2006, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

The other exception is building up non capital debts and paying for them by selling your ground. I know legally no other club or fan has an interest in Tolka but I do think that selling it to cover wage related debts is cheating the Irish sporting public.

Its no different to the small businessman who remortages his house to keep his business going? so now nobody can sell their grounds? Did arsenal donate Highbury to cancer research!!

You point goes against everything all other people have posted. They all say that due to shels having an asset they cant go the rovers route and yet you say the complete opposite.

Just like any other shels threads really when posters contradict each other and yet still make shels out to be the bad guys.

**A face** · 20/03/2006, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by BohDiddley

any group of football devotees that has lasted so far in this GAA/EPL-saturated environment deserves a medal.

Not a league medal though, i mean ... they did bottle it last year after all !!

**pete** · 20/03/2006, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

Also why do people with nothing interesting to say or have anything to add to this debate continue to post?
Can you not just set up an "Ollie Byrne ruined my life" thread and leave this one?

I agree with your sentiment but i think the debate is fairly reasonable here...

**A face** · 20/03/2006, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

Can you not just set up an "Ollie Byrne ruined my life" thread and leave this one?

Are there any Ollie Byrne support groups out there, we could set up a subforum ??

**Student Mullet** · 20/03/2006, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

so now nobody can sell their grounds? Did arsenal donate Highbury to cancer research!!

No, I've no problem with a club selling their ground if the money is reinvested in another ground or in another capital asset e.g. training facilities. I presume that's what arsenal are doing but I don't actually know anytthing about them. Closer to home, Harps and Drogheda are both doing this and I've no problem with that. (Funnily enough, Belfield Park is going towards cancer research!).

The difference, if news reports over the weekend are correct (and I don't know if they are) is that Shels are selling the ground to cover existing debts without any concrete plans for a new ground. It's using capital money for current expenditure which solves short term problems but leaves you worse off in the long run. Basically the sporting public has lost a city centre stadium and gained ten years of success for one of our clubs. I don't consider that to be a good swap.

Originally Posted by higgins

You point goes against everything all other people have posted. They all say that due to shels having an asset they cant go the rovers route and yet you say the complete opposite.

Just like any other shels threads really when posters contradict each other and yet still make shels out to be the bad guys.

I didn't say that Shels can go down the Rovers route so I don't think I contradicted anyone there but, on the general point, we're all seperate people here so there will be contradictions. Non-Shels fans aren't one homogenous group.

**Strabane_Harp** · 20/03/2006, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by northside hoop

That would have no effect on Shels as they are under no obligation to publish accounts and there for would simply lie about their income so they could "legally" pay the players more.

And here we have the problem, clubs to gain a licence i think should have to publicly declare their accounts, clubs unable to do this or who are found to have misled the league should be banned from the league for a year