NI Passports

[Krstic]

dcfc,

It's not a question of it being a possible solution, it's the way it is.

The FIFA ruling does not require any Northern Irish player to relinquish their Irish Passport.

It requires all Northern Ireland players to obtain a British Passport for the purposes of FIFA eligibility confirmation only.

A Northern Ireland player can travel on his Irish passport. They will need a British Passport too, for when the FIFA man does his checks.

Given our sensitivities in this part of the world, it's a ****** rule.

Exactly.

Although surely some agreement can reached with FIFA and this will not matter.

[Not Brazil]

Exactly.

Although surely some agreement can reached with FIFA and this will not matter.

I sincerely hope so Krstic, but I'm not so sure.

This "clarification" from FIFA comes after challenges to the rule were made by the IFA and the Irish Foreign Minister, Dermot Ahern, no less.

I expect the Irish Foreign Minister to robustly challenge this again.

I would like to think the IFA will not merely meekly accept it either.

And, I would really like to see the British Prime Minister involve himself and put FIFA straight on the intricasies of life in Northern Ireland.

Basically, the rule has the potential to create "unionist only" Northern Ireland representative teams.

That would be lamentable and regressive.

UPDATE:

Wells: IFA may fight FIFA ruling


By Stuart McKinley

26 May 2006
Irish FA Chief Executive Howard Wells is considering the association's next move after FIFA insisted that Northern Ireland players must be in possession of a British Passport.

The world governing body has written to the IFA deeming that only a British Passport - and not an Irish one - will be recognised as qualifying a player to represent Northern Ireland.

Wells had urged FIFA to recognise the status of Northern Ireland citizens as having dual nationality, but his appeals for players to be allowed to use either a British or an Irish passport have failed to gain the desired response.

The letter from FIFA said: "The mere fact that a person may be holding an Irish Republic passport, FIFA has ruled, does not provide conclusive evidence for a match commissioner to know that a player is entitled to represent Northern Ireland.

"FIFA sees no alternative but to require players to hold the passport of the National Association (a British Passport) they are seeking to represent in order to allow the match commissioner to verify their eligibility."

Now Wells is planning discussions with members of the Irish FA executive before an expected further appeal to FIFA.

"We have to sit down and decide where this leaves us," said Wells.

"The main thing to work out is to see if there is any recourse in this issue. What must be remembered is that it is FIFA's ruling, not ours and rather than sit back and accept it from the outset we have asked them to recognise the exceptional circumstances that prevail in Northern Ireland."

It is known that at least one member of the squad that is currently touring the USA isn't in possession of a British Passport and Wells is planning to speak to the individual involved before attempting a resolution to the issue.



Wells to pursue passport issue

Howard Wells last night recognised the difficult position FIFA find themselves in with regards to the Passport issue surrounding the Irish FA.

The association's Chief Executive, however, is refusing to let the matter rest despite receiving clarification from world football's governing body that Northern Ireland players must be in possession of a British Passport.

"This is not what I had expected or hoped for," said Wells.

"FIFA have 209 member countries though and they do have to be careful about setting precedents.

"They have taken a month to respond so that tells me that they have been professional and considered, but I am planning to speak to them again."

Lawrie Sanchez leads his team into action against Romania in Chicago in the early hours of tomorrow morning and he is still expected to be able to field his strongest possible side.

"I have heard nothing from Chief Executive Howard Wells to tell me that a player isn't available," said the IFA's Head of International Affairs David Currie.

"So as far as I'm aware every player in the squad is available for selection"

"We would hope that if the FIFA ruling is supposed to kick in straight away they would look kindly on any player carrying an Irish Passport and would realise that our US Tour started last Friday."

[crc]

Maybe a solution for this therefore could be for the players who consider themselves Irish to get a British passport as well as their Irish one - purely to show to UEFA/FIFA officials.
...
I would hope that no-one bar hard-nosed Republicans would have a problem with this...

Sorry Steve, I'm certainly not a hard-nosed Republican and I wouldn't be at all happy with this 'solution'. Maybe if push came to shove I would agree to it extremely grudgingly, but it is certainly no way to avoid the possibility of (as Not Brazil puts it) creating Unionist only NI representative teams.

I have to say that the IFA and Howard Wells are being pro-active on this issue and should be commended, but it will probably take higher political intervention from Dermot Ahern or Tony Blair before FIFA back down (or a Bosman-style legal challenge).

The letter from FIFA said: "The mere fact that a person may be holding an Irish Republic passport, FIFA has ruled, does not provide conclusive evidence for a match commissioner to know that a player is entitled to represent Northern Ireland"

The gross irony here, of course, is that a British passport doesn't provide conclusive evidence that a player is entitled to represent Northern Ireland either.

[Krstic]

Would this whole episode be an attempt by FIFA to force the "Home Nations" into one.
After all, they're one country, ruled by one Government and surely the 4 Associations from one "Nation" situation is an anomoly that happens only in Britain?

Just think that FIFA may have a cunning plan

[Paddy Ramone]

Would this whole episode be an attempt by FIFA to force the "Home Nations" into one.
After all, they're one country, ruled by one Government and surely the 4 Associations from one "Nation" situation is an anomoly that happens only in Britain?

Just think that FIFA may have a cunning plan

It could well be. Britain are entering the 2012 Olympics but Scotland are boycotting. The Scottish National Football side provides a way of Scots expressing their identity. If the Scots were forced (except in the case of some hardcore Rangers fans) to except a British side it would lead to a rise in Scottish Nationalist sentiment.

[Speranza]

I don't see Steve's two passport solution as acceptable TBH.

The players affected by this were two City players. They or one of them were told they needed to carry a British passport, they were not told to relenquish their Irish one but they still refused. Is it acceptable for a Nationalist to hold both passports? I think it's the same as a nationalist holding a British passport and I assume the players felt the same.

[Paddy Ramone]

It would be a disaster for Northern Ireland if this results in Nationalists not choosing to play to play for them. A Unionist only team would be crap. They've always needed players from both communities.

Back in in the 40's when the IFA could select palyers from the Free State I think they even picked an Ireland side for the "Home Internationals" where all eleven players were Southerners or Northern Nationalists. It's hard to see to what NI would have achieved without the likes of Pat Jennings and Peter McParland.

[Mr_Parker]

I have to say that the IFA and Howard Wells are being pro-active on this issue and should be commended,
[/u] either.

Firstly, I have not read through this entire thread. Secondly may I point out that the IFA only became pro-active in all this when they were embarassed/shamed into action when the story was first published in the Irish star over a month ago. This has been an issue since 2003, hardly what you could call pro-active. If they had dealt with it then it would not have blown up in their faces.

The gross irony here, of course, is that a British passport doesn't provide conclusive evidence that a player is entitled to represent Northern Ireland either.

Correct. If anything an Irish passport demonstates it better.

[Not Brazil]

Correct. If anything an Irish passport demonstates it better.

No, it doesn't.

On the front of a British Passport, in big gold words, it states:

United Kingdom Of Great Britain & NORTHERN IRELAND

Funnily, the team is known as Northern Ireland.

[REVIP]

Would this whole episode be an attempt by FIFA to force the "Home Nations" into one.
After all, they're one country, ruled by one Government and surely the 4 Associations from one "Nation" situation is an anomoly that happens only in Britain?

Having four teams from one nation would certainly be anomalous, but given FIFA has twenty or so more members than the UN, there must be other anomalies - Denmark/Faroes comes to mind. I don't think the Faroese autonomy extends any further than that of Scotland

[Mr_Parker]

No, it doesn't.

On the front of a British Passport, in big gold words, it states:

United Kingdom Of Great Britain & NORTHERN IRELAND

Funnily, the team is known as Northern Ireland.

As posted on ILF a UK passport only shows a 4/1 chance of proving you are eligible wereas an Irish one gives you a 2/1 chance!

A passport alone does not prove your eligibility for a UK Association.

[CollegeTillIDie]

If FIFA are trying to bring about a single GB/UK team at the same time that Wales , Scotland and Northern Ireland are gaining are greater degree of self determination than has been the case for a while it would be bizarre indeed.
The two passport solution seems to be the only way out of it at present for Northern born Irish citizens who wish to express their Irish nationality.

Dermot Ahern , Minister for Foreign Affairs, seems prepared to push the fact that under the Good Friday Agreement 1998 in an internationally recognized treaty citizens of Northern Ireland have an entitlement to either and both citizenships of GB & NI and the Republic of Ireland. SO forcing one over the other is unfair. As regards flag of convenience, it has been known that some NI politicians in the past did also carry Irish passports , for visits to countries such as the former Eastern Bloc during the Cold War where British passports were frowned upon as the British had a spy network and the Irish Republic did not.

This was their birthright being born on the island of Ireland and I for one have no problem with that.

[dcfcsteve]

I agree with FIFA.
Some people get what they deserve.

Eligible to play for both , but what real Irish person would want to play for what that represents? & Yes, there's plenty wrong with the 'Free State', but at least it's a country, rather than some unwanted sub-section of Britain.

If the Unionists want a team, would accept begrudgingly;but this should only represent the people who believe in such an outdated piece of colonialism. So, guess they'd be more than happy to sign up to a Brit.passport. & leave the Irish to play for Ireland, wherever they come from on the island!

Ironically guess some 'fudge' will be arrived at & we can all go back to our varying levels of mediocrity.

Before you all get animated again;This is just my personal opinion.
& I don't consider it any sort of wind-up, just because people choose to disagree with me.
After all, I could say the same about my detractors.

Very good Gonzo. You've had your say and your daily axe-grind against Northern Ireland and the Brits.

Now run along - there's a good boy....

[Not Brazil]

Dermot Ahern , Minister for Foreign Affairs, seems prepared to push the fact that under the Good Friday Agreement 1998 in an internationally recognized treaty citizens of Northern Ireland have an entitlement to either and both citizenships of GB & NI and the Republic of Ireland. SO forcing one over the other is unfair.

Dermot Ahern has got some of his facts wrong.

He has claimed that this FIFA rule prohibits Northern Irish players from travelling on Irish passports.

That is totally incorrect.

Nobody will have to relinquish their Irish passport.

I agree with FIFA.
Some people get what they deserve.

Eligible to play for both , but what real Irish person would want to play for what that represents? & Yes, there's plenty wrong with the 'Free State', but at least it's a country, rather than some unwanted sub-section of Britain.

If the Unionists want a team, would accept begrudgingly;but this should only represent the people who believe in such an outdated piece of colonialism. So, guess they'd be more than happy to sign up to a Brit.passport. & leave the Irish to play for Ireland, wherever they come from on the island!

Ironically guess some 'fudge' will be arrived at & we can all go back to our varying levels of mediocrity.

Before you all get animated again;This is just my personal opinion.
& I don't consider it any sort of wind-up, just because people choose to disagree with me.
After all, I could say the same about my detractors.

I am British and Irish.

It appears that it is you who wants a "unionist only" Northern Ireland team.

Strangely, if I suggested such a thing, I would be labeled bigoted.

Go figure.

Oh, and are these unionist types not the very same people that many claim they wish to be "united" with?

[geysir]

As posted on ILF a UK passport only shows a 4/1 chance of proving you are eligible wereas an Irish one gives you a 2/1 chance!
A passport alone does not prove your eligibility for a UK Association.

Are the chances of eligibility for NI not in proportion to (passport eligibile) population over age of 16? Therefore the odds against eligibility with a British passport are 10 times longer than with an Irish passport.

[crc]

Strangely, if I suggested such a thing, I would be labeled bigoted.

I think its pretty clear who the bigot is on this thread!

Voila:

Despite having family tangibly from this 'heritage', I despise all it stands for.
...
The vast majority consider themselves British citizens, as they came from that stock. Have no interest in being Irish, which begs the question, why do they stay?

...but what real Irish person would want to play for what that represents? & Yes, there's plenty wrong with the 'Free State', but at least it's a country, rather than some unwanted sub-section of Britain.

If the Unionists want a team, would accept begrudgingly;but this should only represent the people who believe in such an outdated piece of colonialism.

[pól-dcfc]

Yeah right. No such concept. Even Gerry & Ian agree on that one.

Don't really wanna get onto this again, but you really are showing your ignorance here. Ian Paisley himself has said numerous times that he considers himself an Irishman. And he considers himself British. You really should stop spouting off about things you clearly know so little about. You come across a bit of a fool.

[pól-dcfc]

How long have you lived in NI? Do you read newspapers? Have you attempted to educate yourself in any way about the situation in the North?

If you have you must be a seriously slow learner. The majority of Unionists in the North believe they are Irish and British. You might not like to think it but it is true. Is it any wonder they don't want to be part of the Republic with complete fúcking idiots like you around?

Read the papers, maybe have a look on http://www.sluggerotoole.com (if they ever fix their database error) and you might realise the reality of the situation in the North. "IKP" as you call him certaintly does consider himself Irish, and although I have minimal respect for the man, I'd tend to trust him on that one. I don't think him calling himself Irish winds up Nationalists at all. In fact I know it doesn't.

Anyway, you seriously need to educate yourself before forming such ridiculous opinions. Barely anything you say on the issue of the North has any resembelence to the reality of the situation.

You're just a keyboard warrior. Get a life.

[pól-dcfc]

Your sentence and argument construction has left me totally bewildered. What the hell are you on about?

Seriously do some reading on Paisley and you will come across numerous quotes from the 1950's right up to fairly recently where he states he is Irish - for example, "I would never repudiate the fact that I am an Irishman," said to the Sunday Life newspaper on June 23rd 1991. Why would he say this "to wind up nationalists"? How does it wind up nationalists? How does he have me duped? I'm fairly sure he still wants to remain part of the UK.

Where and when have you seen Unionism and Nationalism up close? Was it during that wonderful period you attended the Brandywell on a weekly basis to inspect our IRA flags up close? Oh wait, that never happened.

I don't belittle others on here "generally". In fact, the only person I have ever belittled is you, and jesus, you deserve it for the ruibbish you spout. What's more belittling, me pointing out the errors in your feeble arguments, or you telling Unionists that they may not consider themselves Irish?

[crc]

Your sentence and argument construction has left me totally bewildered. What the hell are you on about?

Seriously do some reading on Paisley and you will come across numerous quotes from the 1950's right up to fairly recently where he states he is Irish - for example, "I would never repudiate the fact that I am an Irishman," said to the Sunday Life newspaper on June 23rd 1991. Why would he say this "to wind up nationalists"? How does it wind up nationalists? How does he have me duped? I'm fairly sure he still wants to remain part of the UK.

Where and when have you seen Unionism and Nationalism up close? Was it during that wonderful period you attended the Brandywell on a weekly basis to inspect our IRA flags up close? Oh wait, that never happened.

I don't belittle others on here "generally". In fact, the only person I have ever belittled is you, and jesus, you deserve it for the ruibbish you spout. What's more belittling, me pointing out the errors in your feeble arguments, or you telling Unionists that they may not consider themselves Irish?

well said.