Ryanair our new National carrier?

[BohsPartisan]

Michael O Leary? Opportunistic? I'm shocked.

[Dotsy]

I can't see how Aer Lingus maintain this bid undervalues the airline. It is above the top end of the price range the government and the airline management was considering for the IPO €2.7 per share. They ended up going with the lower end price of €2.20.

Having said that I think from a competition point of view this isn't good. Two strong competing airlines has to be in the best interest of the consumer.

Fair play to O' Leary though. He is showing up the idiots in the government for making a complete botch of another privitisation. These guys couldn't run a small business properly let alone a country.

[crc]

I wonder would O'Leary take the view that there clearly is a market for the Aer Lingus style flight (i.e. assigned seat, meal, etc) and use this as a way into that niche?

Aer Lingus only provide a meal on long-haul flights. On European flights you have to pay for your grub just like on Ryanair
(which is fine, I don't like airlie food anyway, so I'm glad I don't have to pay for it).

I have to say, I think you're right about there being a market for a bit of service on flights, its not all about price. After all, there is are cheap busses from Cork to Dublin, but people still fork out for the train (and the plane, and of course, their automobiles - all of which are more expensive and/or comfortable)

[casso36]

You have too hand it to O'Leary, he does'nt give a flying s!!!
If he thinks he can get it he will. Thats what business is all
about and i admire him for it.

[pete]

I don't agree this would be good for the airline passenger in this country but huge respect for O'Leary. In hindsight its amazing no one saw this coming.

- Have to laugh that AL & the government say O'Leary is undervaluing the airline. If that was the case why did they "value" the airline at the IPO launch price?
- On Primetime last night the AL unions requested that the governement buy back the shares off O'Leary. How deluded are there people? Its very likely that AL employees are selling their shares to O'Leary at a nice profit as they supposed to have 60k each on average.
- If the government hadn't taken so long to make a decision on Dublin airport ot allowed a 2nd airport to be build maybe we would have more airlines flying in here so Ryanair & AL would have smaller share?

This can only be seen a massive governement failure again & with an election in the next 12 months will surely only remind people of the eirocom fiasco.

[BohsPartisan]

O Leary is a parasite. Ryanair is a major beficiary of government grants (welfare for the rich). He never seemed to mention this when he went on about Aer Lingus's government funding.

[pete]

O Leary is a parasite. Ryanair is a major beficiary of government grants (welfare for the rich). He never seemed to mention this when he went on about Aer Lingus's government funding.

All companies (big & small) get grants of some form or other. I fail to see what such a comment brings to the debate.

[BohsPartisan]

It brings about as much to the discussion as the declarations of praise being dished out by other posters.

My point is that O Leary gets praised for singlehandedly maing Ryanair a success when along with his draconian labour relations he recieves a fair chunk of taxpayer money and then moans if the (ex) State Company gets it.

[pete]

My point is that O Leary gets praised for singlehandedly maing Ryanair a success when along with his draconian labour relations he recieves a fair chunk of taxpayer money and then moans if the (ex) State Company gets it.

Please describe the nature of this money & the value of.

Ryanair is the most successful irish company. It carries 5 times the passenger number of AL.

[BohsPartisan]

Please describe the nature of this money & the value of.

Ryanair is the most successful irish company. It carries 5 times the passenger number of AL.

OK but it will take me a while to research. I'll get back to you.
Off the top of my head I know they recieve something like €200 per person they fly into Knock airport.

[pete]

Off the top of my head I know they recieve something like €200 per person they fly into Knock airport.

I believe that is a government tender that any airline could apply for. Aer Arann is the main airline that benefits from that on internal irish routes. I am not sure if it is also paid for external flights but i assume so.

[BohsPartisan]

I'm not saying Ryanair are the only ones getting it, I am just pointing out O Leary's hypocricy.

[pete]

I'm not saying Ryanair are the only ones getting it, I am just pointing out O Leary's hypocricy.

I think there is a difference between 500m cash gift/donation from proceeds of AL sale going into AL bank account than givernment grant for provide a service that marketplace would not otherwise provide.

The government own 28% & the employees own another 12%. Ryanair need another 30% from the other remaining 40% left to gain control.

The government have made a massive cockup in undervaluing the IPO. How can a €2.20 IPO now be worth €2.90+. Looking at 1/3 increase in 1 week which means the 60% the state sold off undervalued by €200-300m.

[Macy]

In hindsight its amazing no one saw this coming.

They did - it was flagged by SIPTU. What is amazing that the Government persist with the lie that they had no option, despite SIPTU having it writing from the EU that there was nothing to stop the Government investing the €170 raised.

On Primetime last night the AL unions requested that the governement buy back the shares off O'Leary. How deluded are there people?

Well it's something the Government could do to block it. May not be politically expedient to do so, but it is something that could be done to increase the non ryanair stack, rather than Government talk about being against it.

This can only be seen a massive governement failure again & with an election in the next 12 months will surely only remind people of the eirocom fiasco.

Whatever way you look at it's been a disaster. Even if you support privatisation, the current share price show's the Government massively undervalued the company. This can only have been to the benefit of their IFSC friends, and was certainly to the detriment of the taxpayer. As for eircom, sure last week we saw another consequence of that with the handling of the Smart debacle.

It is clear that Privatisation simply doesn't work in such a small market as this. The tax payer most certainly doesn't benefit - either via undervalued flotations; private monopolies replacing public ones; price increases that soft regulators wave through with no conditions necessary...

[BohsPartisan]

They did - it was flagged by SIPTU. What is amazing that the Government persist with the lie that they had no option, despite SIPTU having it writing from the EU that there was nothing to stop the Government investing the €170 raised.

Yeah, Joe Higgins and Clare Daly were blue in the face pointing this out too.

[pete]

Whatever way you look at it's been a disaster. Even if you support privatisation, the current share price show's the Government massively undervalued the company.

As someone who favours privatisation i have to agree. You have to wonder what the government advisers got paid 30m for. Certainly when the company so undervalued can hardly say the advisers were under-writing the IPO.

There is no way the government should waste any money on buying shares at infalted price off Ryanair. I hear the unions may buy up extra shares themselves & if they want to do that then i have no problem with.

[dahamsta]

As someone who favours privatisation i have to agree. You have to wonder what the government advisers got paid 30m for.

Is that a rhetorical question?

There is no way the government should waste any money on buying shares at infalted price off Ryanair.

For once on a business/economy issue, I agree with you.

adam

[Macy]

There is no way the government should waste any money on buying shares at infalted price off Ryanair.

A case of shutting the stable door, after they've dragged the horse out kicking and screaming. However, the main point is that this is something they could do, if they are genuinely concerned about Ryanair taking over. Put up or shut up and take the political fall out.

I know it's their trade, even a FF tradition, but the blatant lies and mistruths that Government Ministers are coming out with is ridiculous. Saying it was illegal for them to invest, then later in the same discussions saying did people want the Government to put in €2bn. Either they were allowed or they weren't, either the company needed €170m or €2bn. Liars.

[dahamsta]

Gov.ie's in a right pickle here whether or which, particularly with the loudmouth gobsheen himself involved. If this goes to the Competition Commission or the CAA, guess who'll be shouting about a 25% conflict of interest? That 'discussion' will be interesting to say the least...

Perhaps the relevant regulatory bodies could cram something into O'Leary's mouth for the relevant time? It's a big mouth, but I'm pretty sure there's enough Ryanair complainants out there to fill the biggest hole in the world, which is roughly the same size.

adam

[BohsPartisan]

This reminds me a bit of the film Wall Street. Gordon Gecko trying to buy the airline Martin Sheen was wporking for so he could strip its assets and make a fortune.
Whatever happens with this O Leary wins. Because of his big talk about a buy out, the share price will increase so even if he is finally bought out he stands to make about €20 million on this. Now think about that for a second. This is a company that has been built up with taxpayer money I.E. our money, our parents money and our grandparents money, along with years of labour from workers in Aer Lingus. O Leary comes in, buys a load of shares, shoots his mouth off, sells them a few weeks later and makes millions on it. There in a nutshell you have the reality of privatisation of state assets in particular and the nature of the capitalist beast in general.