Election 2007: FF Tax advert controversy

**pete** · 23/05/2007, 3:35 PM

Only seen this in the paper today.

With FF not willing to admit badly phrased language looks like a blantant lie to me...

**BohsPartisan** · 23/05/2007, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by pete

With FF not willing to admit badly phrased language looks like a blantant lie to me...

What?

**dahamsta** · 23/05/2007, 4:31 PM

I'm guessing he's talking about the 97% / 3% thing, where FF said 97% of people will be better off on tax under them, whereas only 3% will be better off under FG/Lab. It's a complete fabrication based on a small part of their overall policy.

**beautifulrock** · 23/05/2007, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

I'm guessing he's talking about the 97% / 3% thing, where FF said 97% of people will be better off on tax under them, whereas only 3% will be better off under FG/Lab. It's a complete fabrication based on a small part of their overall policy.

agreed, but this was one of the area's that Enda handled extremly poorly during the live debate and one of the reasons in my opinion of the opinion poll bounce for FF.

**dahamsta** · 23/05/2007, 6:45 PM

I didn't follow that section of the debate fully, but I will say that debate isn't one of Kenny's strong points. He's a great orator, but a woeful arguer. Bertie isn't much better imho, his tactics are very amateurish, even childish at times. (Cowen is even worse. He sulks ffs.)

Ultimately, and sadly, the electorate is as much to blame for their inability to make reasoned decisions as the party leader's inability to debate. We live in a society of tabloid newspapers and people stupid enough to buy them and believe them.

adam

**Student Mullet** · 23/05/2007, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by beautifulrock

agreed, but the one of the area's that Enda handled extremly poorly during the live debate and one of the reasons in my opinion of the opinion poll bounce for FF.

True but I agree with dehamster on this. It shows how woeful our political system is that Enda mixing up his words is responsible for a drop in his vote. It was the same yesterday when someone in FF said 70 million instead of 50 million or something like that. The reality is that these people are afraid to disagree with the consensus on anything important so they have to manufacture rows like this.

**WeAreRovers** · 23/05/2007, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

I didn't follow that section of the debate fully, but I will say that debate isn't one of Kenny's strong points. He's a great orator, but a woeful arguer. Bertie isn't much better imho, his tactics are very amateurish, even childish at times. (Cowen is even worse. He sulks ffs.)

Ultimately, and sadly, the electorate is as much to blame for their inability to make reasoned decisions as the party leader's inability to debate. We live in a society of tabloid newspapers and people stupid enough to buy them and believe them.

adam

Here we go again. Just because the electorate don't do what you want doesn't make them stupid or wrong. Sovereignty is vested in the people and all that. Some people on here simply don't like democracy.

And BTW Cowan is the king of current Irish political speakers.

KOH

**dahamsta** · 23/05/2007, 8:13 PM

Sorry, but I disagree. I've seen the viewing figures for reality TV, the sales figures for the Star. Those people don't deserve a vote. And in a democracy I'm allowed to have that opinion, and you're allowed to roll your eyes like a nine year old. (Or Brian Cowen, for that matter.)

Don't get me wrong about Cowen, he's a very clever man and in a choice between himself and Martin - god forbid - I'd take Cowen in a heartbeat. But he's embarassing to watch in a debate. Again, he sulks. It's not really becoming of someone over the age of ten, never mind a politician.

adam

**OneRedArmy** · 23/05/2007, 8:56 PM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Here we go again. Just because the electorate don't do what you want doesn't make them stupid or wrong. Sovereignty is vested in the people and all that. Some people on here simply don't like democracy.

And BTW Cowan is the king of current Irish political speakers.

KOH

http://www.theonion.com/content/news...cent_of_people

**pete** · 23/05/2007, 9:06 PM

Sorry wasn't clear with the first post. Added the thread quickly at work as didn't not see this behind debated elsewhere.

I earlier thought the advert was a fabrication but its clearly its a lie as the language is fairly clear. Its strange that FF choose such an attack. I was also surprised RTE left Cowan away with such dubious answers on Primetime last night...

**beautifulrock** · 23/05/2007, 9:51 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

True but I agree with dehamster on this. It shows how woeful our political system is that Enda mixing up his words is responsible for a drop in his vote. It was the same yesterday when someone in FF said 70 million instead of 50 million or something like that. The reality is that these people are afraid to disagree with the consensus on anything important so they have to manufacture rows like this.

I understand that Student, but you must also agree that one of the key area's, for all of the parties, is to be very clear on what they are about. You cannot blame the electorate if one or other of the parties blunders around the place saying one thing one night(as it happens for both of the above on TV), then correcting it with a hastily cobbled together press release the next day through, generally, a different medium i.e the papers. Is it any wonder we the elctorate are scratching our collective heads.

**BohsPartisan** · 23/05/2007, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Here we go again. Just because the electorate don't do what you want doesn't make them stupid or wrong. Sovereignty is vested in the people and all that. Some people on here simply don't like democracy.

Yes, an opinion on everything!

**Poor Student** · 24/05/2007, 3:39 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Its strange that FF choose such an attack.

Why? I'm sure it did FG more damage. Sling enough mud and all that. It reminded me very much of Ryanair type newspaper ads.

**Calcio Jack** · 24/05/2007, 4:08 PM

That ad' was yet again a typical example of FF cute hoorism in action. They put an ad' in the papers which no doubt will be the subject of complaints to the advertising standards board.... which will more than likely adjuicate and ask FF not to run such an ad' again...of course the judgement won't be delivered until some time later this year...so in effect FF will have gotten away with lies... but hey what's new as long as you fool most of the people most of the time, so you have to admire their complete amorality and that in the end will be thedifference between them and FG.... FG just aren't "streetfighters"

The other interesting thing about the ad' is the role played by the papers which ran it, including the Irish Indo and the Irish times... guess when it comes down to it it could be argued that all the 4th estate are interested in is "money" because if they had vetted the ad' on any reasonable benchmark they shouldn't of run it....