Alex Murphy (D Newcastle b.2004)

[Eirambler]

The Galwegians have officially disowned Connolly it seems.

To be honest at this point when reading an Irish football "statistic" in an Irish paper it's probably more accurate to just assume that it's wrong, such is the standard of our football media.

[CSAD]

There's lazy, there's wrong, and then there's what Aidan Fitzmaurice wrote in this article about Murphy's debut

It's to be expected to be fair, Irish soccer journalism is about having a whinge nowadays rather than actually reporting something factually correct.

[elatedscum]

It's to be expected to be fair, Irish soccer journalism is about having a whinge nowadays rather than actually reporting something factually correct.

Bring back Liam Mackey and Con Houlihan

[Trequartista20]

Named among the substitutes again today against Spurs.

[Buckett]

Today is the fifth League game in a row that Murphy has been on the bench, still just the one appearance, against Chelsea.

[Eirambler]

Comes on for his second Premier League appearance.

Looks to have given away a penalty but is saved by VAR.

[tetsujin1979]

New contract for Murphy at Newcastle
https://www.newcastleunited.com/news...term-contract/

[JR89]

So by my understanding Newcastle will need Murphy to spend another season with the club for him to be classed as a club trained player otherwise he'll only be classed as association trained if they send him on loan to a team in England.

A "club-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.

An "association-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which the player turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with a club or with other clubs affiliated to the same association as that of his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.

[Eminence Grise]

I don't think a loan disconnects a player's service with a club so that he isn't considered club-trained. Does it?

[Eirambler]

I think it's OK for them to go on loan. Otherwise no Irish player who goes over at 18 could go on loan until they're 21.

[JR89]

I think it's OK for them to go on loan. Otherwise no Irish player who goes over at 18 could go on loan until they're 21.

Well that's another thing they can thank Brexit for.

[elatedscum]

I think it's OK for them to go on loan. Otherwise no Irish player who goes over at 18 could go on loan until they're 21.

My understanding is:

1) for premier league rules it doesn’t make any difference, so long as the player stays within England cause they need 3 years of registration within England. Teams require 8 homegrown players for that and Murphy would be fine to go on loan in England and still be a homegrown player. There’s 17 non-homegrown slots.

2) for uefa rules for champions league, Europa league etc, you need 3 full seasons (they don’t need to be continuous) between the age of 15 and 21 signed to a club to be homegrown. There are 4 slots for homegrown players and 4 slots for association players and 17 other slots too.

So because Murphy signed at 18, he therefore has to stay for the 3 full seasons to be eligible. So for Murphy that’s 22/23, 23/24, 24/25. As far as I’m aware, he could sign on loan for one season though, cause the 25/26 season is his last youth season so to speak. So it’s 3 of his 4 first seasons.

It can be worse for a player like Sam Curtis who turns 18 after the September window and before the January transfer window cause essentially this first season doesn’t count for uefa cause it’s not a complete season. So then the following three seasons are all essential (because it goes by year of birth). So had Sam Curtis signed for Newcastle in January, he’d be forced to play 3.5 years at Newcastle without a loan to qualify for homegrown status.

One other factor is, to qualify as an underage player in Europe, you need to have been playing continuously for 2 years at the club (not necessarily full seasons). This is just in Europe. For premier league, it’s purely based on DOB.

So in Murphy’s case, he wasn’t eligible to play champions league as a youth player this season. However he will be next season. In a theoretical Sam Curtis situation, the player could sign January and in his first full season he’s ineligible or needs to be registered as one of the 17 senior non-homegrown players. Start of his third season, same situation but if they get to the knockout stages then in January he can be added to the B List for youth players.

If you’re a club with European aspirations, generally those 4 homegrown slots are really valuable. And the association spots much less so cause there’s a much larger pool to choose from if you’re short a player. If you can get up to 6 or 7 homegrown players, you’re in great nick cause the spare ones count as association players and it means you can sell one if you want to without worrying about the consequences.

Part of the reason, Liverpool have always been so reticent to lose Kelleher is they were always short of homegrown players and losing him would essentially mean playing with one less squad player (they currently have just 3 in Kelleher, Alexander-Arnold and Jones and the next realistic squad player to graduate are in 25/26 season, when all of Bradley, Elliott and Quansah will become homegrown).

It’s the one drawback of signing for a top 12 club is they’re planning for these situations. Think it was also why Troy Parrott wasn’t let out in January one time for his first loan because he needed the full season to be a homegrown player for Spurs. Obviously ultimately he turned out not to be good enough that they’d want him to be homegrown - but ultimately it’s a game of numbers and the more homegrown players you create, the more likely you’ll have enough good enough to fill your quota

[JR89]

Also Newcastle could only register 23 players on their A list this season given their lack of club trained players. Now that Murphy qualifies for the B list it's likely another reason he stays around next season.

If elatedscum is correct and he's got two more season's to reach his 36months then can see Newcastle keeping him for the first half of next season if they qualify for Europa or Conference league. Then assess things in January.