Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

[liamoo11]

Far be it from me to gainsay s.o. like KK, who clearly knows his stuff, but there's one thing I don't get:
"There is more to the role than qualifying for major tournaments. The FAI want Stephen Kenny’s replacement to introduce a style of play that becomes our identity as a football nation, with our teenage sides adopting a similar approach to the senior team."

I really don't understand how any individual, even for a country with a small player pool like ROI, can possibly both manage the Senior team AND take responsibility for under-age development.

For in the end, the former is a two, four or at most six year job, where the chief requirement is winning games/qualifying, and doing so with the players he's given. Whereas the latter is maybe a 10 year process, involving 4 or 5 under-age level teams, drawing their players from dozens of clubs and several leagues in different countries etc.

Take Belgium for example. Their Golden Age derived from the Belgian FA basically telling all their domestic top flight clubs that they HAD to coach their players in a certain style, with BFA-approved coaches. And when you look at all the great players they've produced, it clearly worked. But it took years to come through, during which time they had several Head Coaches for the Senior NT.

Now there are reasons why that couldn't work with ROI, primarily players going to GB/Europe at an early age, rather than staying at home, plus the lack of f-t domestic clubs with proper academies etc. But look instead to Wales, where Oisin Roberts did a great development job as Director of Football. But again that took a number of years, during which time the Senior NT had a number of Managers.

Which is not to say that the Senior NT's manager shouldn't be aware of, and have an input to, what a Director of Football is doing (in contrast eg to Martin O'Neill's distinct lack of interest in ROI under-age teams). And he should certainly have a close relationship with his U-21 manager (see eg Michael O'Neill and Ian Baraclough with NI)

But in the end he has enough to do with his own job, including integrating those "granny rulers" who've come through via an entirely different system and who will make up a fair proportion of his squad. And in any case, if the ROI Senior manager does a bad job, he'll be replaced soon enough. While if he does a good job, he's liable to leave for a bigger/better paid position elsewhere, in Carsley's case likely the PL, or even the big job at The FA.

I think it's just as you said in having close l8nks with all the sides and coaches down to the 15s and development squads and likely contributing to things like coach education programs. A further step would be saying that all teams play with the same formation which seems to be a 442/424 with carsley but I'm not sure that makes sense as coaches of say an under 19 or under 21 side should have the freedom to play a formation that they feel gives them.the best chance with rhe players they have. It might be fair enoughfor continuity that all teams adapt the overall pattern of play say possession game, counter attacking, low block, high press or whatever your having yourself.

It will be interesting if carsley gets it to see the end to 5 at the back. It was an obvious call for us with the number of centrehalves we had but it did leave us constantly overloaded by teams in midfield cause our centre halves never seemed comfortable to have one step into midfield in and out of possession and our fullbacks were generally so poor throughout kennnys tenure.

[ifk101]

Far be it from me to gainsay s.o. like KK, who clearly knows his stuff, but there's one thing I don't get:
"There is more to the role than qualifying for major tournaments. The FAI want Stephen Kenny’s replacement to introduce a style of play that becomes our identity as a football nation, with our teenage sides adopting a similar approach to the senior team."

I really don't understand how any individual, even for a country with a small player pool like ROI, can possibly both manage the Senior team AND take responsibility for under-age development.

For in the end, the former is a two, four or at most six year job, where the chief requirement is winning games/qualifying, and doing so with the players he's given. Whereas the latter is maybe a 10 year process, involving 4 or 5 under-age level teams, drawing their players from dozens of clubs and several leagues in different countries etc.

Take Belgium for example. Their Golden Age derived from the Belgian FA basically telling all their domestic top flight clubs that they HAD to coach their players in a certain style, with BFA-approved coaches. And when you look at all the great players they've produced, it clearly worked. But it took years to come through, during which time they had several Head Coaches for the Senior NT.

Now there are reasons why that couldn't work with ROI, primarily players going to GB/Europe at an early age, rather than staying at home, plus the lack of f-t domestic clubs with proper academies etc. But look instead to Wales, where Oisin Roberts did a great development job as Director of Football. But again that took a number of years, during which time the Senior NT had a number of Managers.

Which is not to say that the Senior NT's manager shouldn't be aware of, and have an input to, what a Director of Football is doing (in contrast eg to Martin O'Neill's distinct lack of interest in ROI under-age teams). And he should certainly have a close relationship with his U-21 manager (see eg Michael O'Neill and Ian Baraclough with NI)

But in the end he has enough to do with his own job, including integrating those "granny rulers" who've come through via an entirely different system and who will make up a fair proportion of his squad. And in any case, if the ROI Senior manager does a bad job, he'll be replaced soon enough. While if he does a good job, he's liable to leave for a bigger/better paid position elsewhere, in Carsley's case likely the PL, or even the big job at The FA.

It’s not a case of the senior manager taking responsibility for underage development, rather using the senior team to set tone and direction and take on greater willingness to engage and cooperate with those under. Maybe the senior team has operated too much in isolation in the past – let’s say pre-Kenny, and this needs (to continue) to change.

Unlike the trending profile makeup of the IFA (and Welsh?) teams, I would say the granny rulers represent a decreasing proportion of our senior squad and have done so for the past 15 or so years. And it is becoming more the case that the granny rulers are squad players rather than key players/ in the starting 11. Currently, it’s probably just Josh Cullen that makes our strongest 11 (although arguably his standing as an automatic starter is under threat with recent club form). This is evident to those with a vested interest in our representative teams, and hence the want/ need to do more with player development. Sure, there are plenty of structural obstacles to overcome but there are significant potential upsides for the game and “our identity as a football nation”.

I think Kilbane’s article hints it’s Carsley btw, that’s if they sort out the remaining details. (But the thing I reacted to most in article was the assertion England, the greatest selection of U21 players ever assembled, outfoxed Spain. That’s Kilbane being a mate for Carsley there :-)).

[Eirambler]

That's my take on it too. He wants it, but very much only on his own terms, and he wants everything agreed in advance because, based on past experience, he doesn't think the FAI can't be trusted. If he gets what he wants he'll take it but he's getting it out there (via Kilbane) that if he doesn't then he's happy to walk away.

A good tactical play from him to be fair. Especially as it's now known that Lennon is probably next in line and almost nobody wants him to get it. This is Carsley's moment where he's in a position of strength, and he's taking advantage of that.

[geysir]

Has Phillipe Troussier expressed an interest yet, either way?

[ontheotherhand]

Has Phillipe Troussier expressed an interest yet, either way?

The man is playing chess while Carsley plays checkers.

[geysir]

I haven't followed this new manager thread actively because I haven't got the wherewithal anymore to voluntarily endure months of self-imposed masochism. Of those who were there , who can forget the panic when El Tel came in with a bullet to 1/4??
Now considering all what we've been through since, would he have been that bad a choice?
I haven't come across another football association who drag out the appointment process to the nth degree, who don't realise that 500/600k a year is an attractive salary for 90% of the technically competent coaches around europe but persist with the devil you know of coaches who are modestly qualified but overpaid, or in Carsley's case a genuine candidate for us who possibly doesn't see a gift horse of a job opportunity, a real step up from the obscurity of u21 intl management.

[seanfhear]

Terry Venables was a very good coach when he stuck to coaching ~ But he was inclined to get stuck in to a lot of other stuff that was not coaching ~ I suppose that would not have been that easy to do as the Irish international manager.

I suppose if a relatively young Terry Venables was around today ~ We'd jump at the chance to get him.

[Eirambler]

An away friendly against Portugal. The FAI really don't want to make it easy for the new man coming in, do they? A tough run of friendlies to start resulting in little to no chance to being second seeds in the World Cup draw. We better hope we avoid England in the draw tomorrow (despite a report on rte.ie this morning that supporters would for some reason want to draw England).

[pineapple stu]

Home to Hungary as well. So four tough games coming up alright.

Can't understand anyone who'd want us to draw England tomorrow, unless it's for an easy sight of Alexander-Arnold, Kane, Rashford, etc. But that'd tell you where their priorities lie...

[jbyrne]

Home to Hungary as well. So four tough games coming up alright.

Can't understand anyone who'd want us to draw England tomorrow, unless it's for an easy sight of Alexander-Arnold, Kane, Rashford, etc. But that'd tell you where their priorities lie...

maybe the fans you refer to might actually want the excitement that any ireland v england match brings with it?
there are only so many nations league matches against the likes of ukraine, wales and armenia that will genuinely excite the fans.

[JR89]

Home to Hungary as well. So four tough games coming up alright.

Can't understand anyone who'd want us to draw England tomorrow, unless it's for an easy sight of Alexander-Arnold, Kane, Rashford, etc. But that'd tell you where their priorities lie...

€€€€€€

FAI will be rubbing their hands if England come out of the draw. They'll probably be hoping for England and Norway as top two seeds.

[Eirambler]

I can see why the FAI might want England in terms of €€€€, albeit it's short term thinking, but then they're prone to that. But I'd like to think the real fans at this point would want a draw that gives us at least some small chance of topping the group and earning a World Cup playoff place. Which we can safely write off before a ball is kicked if we draw England. Daytripper Liverpool/Man City types might want England alright, but I wouldn't count them as Ireland fans.

[pineapple stu]

€€€€€€

FAI will be rubbing their hands if England come out of the draw.

FAI, sure. But that doesn't impact the fans as such.

maybe the fans you refer to might actually want the excitement that any ireland v england match brings with it?
there are only so many nations league matches against the likes of ukraine, wales and armenia that will genuinely excite the fans.

The friendly against England in 2020 was one of the least exciting of all the games we played under Kenny (which is saying a lot!) It was a one-sided mismatch.

[jbyrne]

FAI, sure. But that doesn't impact the fans as such.


The friendly against England in 2020 was one of the least exciting of all the games we played under Kenny (which is saying a lot!) It was a one-sided mismatch.

friendly, not nations league with something to play for

[pineapple stu]

A lot of England's qualifiers are damp squibs for the same reason though.

[JR89]

Hmmmm, I wonder who wrote this article....

[Jolly Red Giant]

Has Phillipe Troussier expressed an interest yet, either way?

Troussier would have been an interesting choice 15 years ago - but he has spent most of the time since in China and south-east Asia - and his latest stint as Vietnam manager resulted in the worst period for Vietnam in their footballing history.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Unlike the trending profile makeup of the IFA (and Welsh?) teams, I would say the granny rulers represent a decreasing proportion of our senior squad and have done so for the past 15 or so years. And it is becoming more the case that the granny rulers are squad players rather than key players/ in the starting 11. Currently, it’s probably just Josh Cullen that makes our strongest 11 (although arguably his standing as an automatic starter is under threat with recent club form). This is evident to those with a vested interest in our representative teams, and hence the want/ need to do more with player development. Sure, there are plenty of structural obstacles to overcome but there are significant potential upsides for the game and “our identity as a football nation”.

Demographic factors are at play here - over the past 60 years there has been relatively little emigration from Ireland to England in comparison to previous times. There is an increasingly dwindling pool of players born in England who would be eligible to play for Ireland and that is only likely to accelerate.

Compensating for this is an increasing number of players emerging from families who have immigrated into Ireland. I view this as a position - the different cultural outlooks in my view will benefit the Irish team in the long run. Also - thanks to Brexit - we are increasingly seeing Irish kids moving to European clubs where they will be exposed to different footballing cultures and philosophies, breaking out of the straight-jacket of English soccer.

[JR89]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/fai_s...886001152-jjQ9

Assume that means they've agreed terms with someone if they're advertising for jobs for the senior team.

[Razors left peg]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/fai_s...886001152-jjQ9

Assume that means they've agreed terms with someone if they're advertising for jobs for the senior team.

Those are jobs that I would imagine the manager would have very little say on or even care that much as long as the people in the job was competent...

But it does show the frustration at waiting that we are looking for clues everywhere. Im doing it myself, trying to read between the lines on everything. I was certain we were going to have announcement by today at the latest with the draw tomorrow. I am starting to get anxious that its dragging out.